Nuhey News

We talk about the MARKET

Inside Schizophrenia: Love, Courting, and Marriage with Schizophrenia

Inside Schizophrenia: Love, Dating, and Marriage with Schizophrenia

Can individuals with schizophrenia fall in love? Can they date and even get married? In at the moment’s episode, host Rachel Star Withers (a lady who lives with schizophrenia) and co-host Gabe Howard evaluate their very own previous romantic experiences.

In addition they interview Andrew and Stephanie Downing, authors of Marriage and Schizophrenia: Eyes on the Prize. Take heed to find out about their unimaginable journey of overcoming schizophrenia and constructing a wholesome, rewarding, and completely happy marriage.

In regards to the Company

The Downing Household

Andrew was identified with schizophrenia on the age of eighteen. One 12 months later he was engaged to Stephanie. After two extra years, they have been married. Schizophrenia and psychological sickness basically have been the principle obstacles of their fourteen-year partnership. Their marriage has been reworked by the therapeutic energy of Christ. They stay and work in Grand Rapids, Minnesota, and have two fantastic youngsters, Ella and James. Glorifying Christ in all they do is their purpose. They try to make Him the middle of their private lives, marriage, and household.

Marriage and Schizophrenia: Eyes on the Prize Amazon Hyperlink


Laptop Generated Transcript of “Love, Courting, Marriage with Schizophrenia” Episode

Editor’s Word: Please be aware that this transcript has been laptop generated and due to this fact could include inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thanks.

Announcer: Welcome to Inside Schizophrenia, a glance in to higher understanding and dwelling properly with schizophrenia. Hosted by famend advocate and influencer Rachel Star Withers and that includes Gabe Howard.

Sponsor: Listeners, may a change in your schizophrenia remedy plan make a distinction? There are alternatives on the market you won’t learn about. Go to to seek out out extra about as soon as month-to-month injections for adults with schizophrenia.

Rachel Star Withers: Welcome to Inside Schizophrenia. I’m Rachel Star right here with my co-host, Gabe Howard. Gabe at the moment, an fascinating subject, love, courting, marriage whereas having schizophrenia. As if these three issues weren’t onerous sufficient.

Gabe Howard: Yeah, you possibly can see why we waited so lengthy to do that, as a result of I’ve identified you for a very long time, Rachel, and in all that point you’ve by no means wished to debate love, courting or marriage.

Rachel Star Withers: No.

Gabe Howard: You’re OK discussing schizophrenia,

Rachel Star Withers: Sure.

Gabe Howard: However not love courting or marriage. So that is gonna be enjoyable.

Rachel Star Withers: Yeah, I’m not a terrific supply for relationship recommendation as a result of I’m single. Like, that’s the tip of the story, I ,

Gabe Howard: That’s particularly reasonable.

Rachel Star Withers: Yeah, I’ve been. For a very long time.

Gabe Howard: And also you’re completely happy being single, you’re.

Rachel Star Withers: Yeah, certain, no matter.

Gabe Howard: No, I imply, severely, are you content being single?

Rachel Star Withers: I’d fairly be single than sad.

Gabe Howard: That’s truthful. OK.

Rachel Star Withers: So I’m positive as I’m. We’ll say it that manner.

Gabe Howard: You’re positive as you might be.

Rachel Star Withers: Yeah.

Gabe Howard: I feel the essential factor for the viewers to grasp, although, is that you simply’re not single due to schizophrenia. Proper? You don’t really feel that these two issues have any relation. You do have schizophrenia and you might be single. However they’re, you perceive what I’m attempting to say.

Rachel Star Withers: In case you’re asking me, may I simply discover somebody, sure, I may.

Gabe Howard: However you’d be sad in that relationship,

Rachel Star Withers: Proper, yeah.

Gabe Howard: I do know that schizophrenia wraps round your total life, however you don’t really feel that schizophrenia is holding you again. You simply haven’t met the best particular person. And you’ve got very excessive requirements and also you’re a powerful lady.

Rachel Star Withers: I do, I do.

Gabe Howard: It is best to have excessive requirements.

Rachel Star Withers: One other manner for prime requirements is shallow,

Gabe Howard: You’re not shallow,

Rachel Star Withers: That’s all I prefer to say, shallow,

Gabe Howard: You’re not.

Rachel Star Withers: Excessive requirements, shallow, whichever.

Gabe Howard: Fortunately, fortunately, we discovered a married couple, we discovered Andrew and Stephanie Downing, who’re the authors of Marriage and Schizophrenia: Eyes on the Prize. I had no concept that this existed. However, Rachel, you’ve been conscious of this e-book for fairly a while, even earlier than we interviewed them for the present.

Rachel Star Withers: And what’s cool is so Andrew, the husband, he has schizophrenia they usually discovered after which they bought married. So, it wasn’t like they’d been collectively, after which abruptly one thing occurred just a few years. She went in understanding that that is one thing that they’re going to need to cope with collectively for the remainder of their lives.

Gabe Howard: And what was actually cool in regards to the interview, which is developing just a little later, is we interviewed them each on the similar time, and I believed they have been very, very candid. It was actually fascinating to listen to their ideas on this concept that folks with schizophrenia shouldn’t get married and shouldn’t have children. Rachel, what do you consider that idea that folks with schizophrenia both shouldn’t be in romantic relationships or, what we most frequently hear, can’t be in steady relationships?

Rachel Star Withers: I feel individuals with schizophrenia can do something relationship sensible, that doesn’t imply it’s going to be straightforward, as is most issues in life. The schizophrenia is simply one thing else added on. The rationale two individuals break up could don’t have anything to do with schizophrenia. It could possibly be the mom in regulation’s horrible. I imply, it could possibly be they’re simply actually annoying. They snore at night time and you’ll’t take it. You possibly can solely take so a few years with out sleep, . So there’s like foolish causes and like critical the explanation why individuals do or don’t get married or do or don’t keep married.

Gabe Howard: Backing off from schizophrenia for a second, simply speaking about normal psychological sickness, as longtime listeners of the present know, I’ve bipolar dysfunction and I’ve been divorced twice. And I’m fascinated on the quantity of people that hear that I’ve bipolar dysfunction, and listen to that I bought divorced, that’s it. That’s all they know. They weren’t round after I was married. They’re simply assembly me for the primary time. I’ve been fortunately married for eight years now. They usually’re like, oh, you bought divorced twice? Bipolar dysfunction, proper?

Rachel Star Withers: I imply, Gabe, I’ve all the time assumed you ran them off.

Gabe Howard: I perceive why individuals really feel that manner, I do. It’s a straightforward conclusion to attract and far in the identical manner with schizophrenia, bipolar dysfunction is all encompassing. To say that it had zero to do with it’s definitely disingenuous. Rachel, I really feel that following these stereotypes removes company and duty from the individuals concerned. And I feel this doesn’t give us a chance to develop. I believed the divorces have been my fault and that allowed me to be very introspective, look into myself and develop as an individual. If I’d have taken the corporate line, oh, it’s as a result of I’ve bipolar dysfunction, then I don’t know that I’d have improved and I don’t assume that I’d be fortunately married now. How do you are feeling about individuals who simply blame their love woes on schizophrenia after which don’t enhance as an individual? I think about that you simply don’t be ok with that as a result of I’ve by no means, ever seen you employ schizophrenia as an excuse for something.

Rachel Star Withers: I feel if you need an excuse, you’re going to seek out an excuse. Schizophrenia is a very massive one which you may be like, properly, nobody desires me due to this purpose. And there’s different issues like, sure, the medicine makes you acquire weight. Sure, the medicine makes you wish to sleep. Most of them have sexual negative effects. And you’ll say all of that does contribute. Completely. However on the finish of the day, I’m answerable for me and it’s my job to discover a strategy to love my life, , as a result of those self same issues I may instantly flip in like, oh, man, I’ve a very dangerous job. Nobody’s going to wish to be with me. My hair is falling out. Mine is, so don’t really feel like I’m simply mentioning the fellows, it’s mine too. You understand, there’s so many issues, although. If you need an excuse, you’ll all the time have one. That’s not the way in which to have a look at it. And truthfully, nobody desires to be in a relationship with that.

Gabe Howard: We talked about in preparation for this present, and also you instructed me that you simply have been on courting apps. Do you listing your self on courting apps? You understand, hello, lady dwelling with schizophrenia, likes canine?

Rachel Star Withers: No, if it’s somebody that I like and we wish to meet up for a date, I need them to know that forward of time. I fairly them know getting in, hey, she has a psychological dysfunction, blah, blah, blah, the extra you get hooked up to them after which convey it up three weeks later after which they depart, I fairly you permit than me get hooked up to you. The draw back of that’s, yeah, it in all probability makes lots of people depart, however these don’t sound like good individuals for me.

Gabe Howard: This, after all, is a rampant dialogue on psychological well being message boards. When is the best time to inform? Some individuals advocate such as you, instantly. Some individuals advocate placing it in your courting profile. Different individuals say earlier than the primary date, some individuals say in particular person on the primary date, someone says by the sixth date. Some individuals say it’s none of their enterprise, inform them in your marriage ceremony day. And whenever you learn via it, the entire causes appear rational. Now, you mentioned that you simply inform individuals earlier than you meet them in particular person and the primary objection to that’s, however isn’t that loads? I imply, you’ve by no means even laid eyes on this particular person they usually’re already sending you their well being historical past. How did you arrive at that being the proper time to inform them fairly than in particular person or on date quantity three?

Rachel Star Withers: I don’t identical to ship this message being like, hey, by the way in which, guess what? Can’t wait to see you tomorrow night time. However I’m at a unique scenario than most individuals with schizophrenia. I’ve a Internet presence. I make numerous media and various things. And it’s normally listed in most of my bios. And I all the time ensure that we’ve both checked out one another’s Instagram’s or one thing the place I’ve numerous schizophrenia stuff. Twitter. Like in case you have been to look over any of my social media and also you didn’t understand that I had it, I imply, I don’t know. If it’s a case the place I’m unsure in the event that they checked out my Instagram like we haven’t friended one another, I normally ship them a hyperlink to one thing I’ve carried out or simply straight as much as my web site. And I say, hey, by the way in which, that is me. I work in psychological well being making media and I even have schizophrenia. I’ve solely needed to do the textual content factor in all probability about like 5 to 10 occasions. So it’s not like I’m consistently sending out these texts. More often than not, individuals will simply see the social media or whatnot.

Gabe Howard: It’s fascinating about texting individuals earlier than you go on a date with them and telling them that you’ve schizophrenia. I wish to say that I’m in opposition to this technique. I feel that it’s form of loads for someone to see in a textual content earlier than they’ve laid eyes on you, met you as an individual, been in your orbit. All of that mentioned my spouse, Kendall, I texted it to her and we’re now married and simply celebrated our eighth marriage ceremony anniversary. So it labored. And individuals are , Gabe, you’ve simply mentioned that you simply have been in opposition to it, however you probably did it. Yeah, I had simply had a relationship finish the place I made a decision that I used to be going to inform the particular person on just like the third or fourth date and it took about six weeks to get there. So numerous texting, numerous cellphone calls, however we solely frolicked three or 4 occasions. And eventually over lunch, I instructed the particular person, I mentioned, , hey, I wish to let I’ve bipolar dysfunction. And a few days later, she’s like, hey, it’s an excessive amount of for me. And such as you mentioned, I bought hooked up. The rationale that I instructed that particular person is as a result of I appreciated them. I loved the six weeks. So right here got here Kendall on the identical courting app. And I used to be like, I’m simply going to do away with you. And all of it labored out. Do you assume perhaps there simply isn’t any proper reply? It’s no matter occurs to you occurs to you?

Rachel Star Withers: I’d say there’s completely no proper reply, your gender, your age, your different conditions, all of that stuff performs in. Each scenario is totally different and each particular person is. You shouldn’t really feel like you need to inform anybody up entrance. That’s your private enterprise.

Gabe Howard: You talked about gender variations, do you assume that there’s a gender distinction between a lady telling a person that she lives with schizophrenia versus a person telling a lady and even within the LGBTQ neighborhood? Do you assume it’s totally different than within the straight neighborhood? I do know I’m asking you to talk for lots of people. I do know that’s loads. However you’re the analysis queen. What have you ever discovered?

Rachel Star Withers: Our two episodes we did on gender and schizophrenia, undoubtedly examine these out in case you haven’t but.

Gabe Howard: They’re nice, they’re nice.

Rachel Star Withers: We realized that girls with schizophrenia are inclined to have a greater social end result and longer lasting relationships and kids than males with schizophrenia. Males are usually identified with schizophrenia, considerably youthful, round late teenagers. After which you’ve gotten ladies, the common age, which doesn’t apply to everyone, didn’t apply to me round like 30s to mid 30s. So there’s an excellent likelihood that numerous ladies are already married earlier than it ever is a prognosis. Whereas you’ve gotten guys getting in understanding, oh, no, I’ve to inform this particular person this factor, whereas the ladies you’re already married already in all probability have children after which it comes up. So I feel simply the social constructs are form of stacked in opposition to males in that scenario. You understand, we all the time have the joke in society that girls are loopy. So I do assume a lady would in all probability get away with saying she has a psychological dysfunction and the opposite particular person taking it simpler than if a person says it. And sadly, like we additionally realized with gender, with the males, normally individuals hear males with schizophrenia they usually assume violence.

Gabe Howard: I can think about this may be onerous for courting as a result of your mates could be like, wait, you’re courting a schizophrenic? Doesn’t that imply that you’ll be X, Y, Z in your sleep? That’s unlucky, as a result of please take heed to that episode. Schizophrenia and violence. Small, tiny proportion, sure, however there’s a small, tiny proportion of violence that exists in society. Schizophrenia doesn’t increase or decrease it. It simply type of exists inside it.

Rachel Star Withers: Let’s speak about that different particular person within the relationship, so the one that doesn’t have a psychological dysfunction, who’s, and we’re speaking simply ready to full on marriage, no matter went with that. And that’s form of the place I imply, you’re a little bit totally different, Gabe, the place you’ve had a number of marriages and I’ve had none nor been in even near a stage the place that may occur. And in a manner, it’s good as a result of I don’t have something hanging over my head. I don’t really feel that I impacted anybody’s life that negatively. And I’m not saying, , you’re a horrible particular person, however similar factor. You understand, that may be a lot to form of weigh on you, that your signs did have an effect on one other particular person.

Gabe Howard: It’s true, and I think about it’s a silver lining to being single. I do know I’m prying. Rachel, thanks for being susceptible, however do you are feeling that the truth that you’ve by no means been married is type of a plus for you? As a result of, such as you mentioned, you don’t have any regrets. Your schizophrenia didn’t affect a love curiosity.

Rachel Star Withers: It’s a great and dangerous factor. Whereas I haven’t needed to cope with these negatives, I additionally haven’t gotten any of the positives. I’m certain you had nice moments, constructive moments in that marriage. And I feel that’s one thing onerous for lots of people with psychological issues who’re single. They’re like, properly, I need that. I wish to be in love. I wish to have somebody. While you have a look at simply your help community, you form of assume, oh, properly, what if I’m alone at age, such and such? You understand what’s going to occur to me after my mother and father go away, after, , my pals get married and have their very own households? Like, what about my help system? They usually’ve even discovered analysis that folks with schizophrenia, whenever you’re sad along with your relationship standing, you should have worse signs than those that are proud of their present relationship.

Gabe Howard: In some ways, it’s one of many meanest issues about schizophrenia that the illness course of is impacted by exterior elements. In case you’re in a wholesome relationship, your signs are much less. In case you’re in an sad relationship, your signs are worse. However now in case you’re in no relationship, your signs are much less or worse, relying on how you are feeling about that. Rachel, as a single lady, are you content being single and due to this fact getting the advantages of much less signs or are you sad being single?

Rachel Star Withers: I personally am very proud of my relationship of nothingness proper now, like, I don’t really feel like, oh, wow, I actually want, , I used to be married, I actually want, , and at age 35, as a lady, most ladies are both married or they’re not completely happy that they’re nonetheless single at thirty 5, that’s not like a great factor. They’re like, , actually throwing that internet on the market, no matter I can catch at this level. So I do assume it’s totally different. I really get requested quite a bit, why are you single? Various things like that. And I’m like, oh, you don’t know me, that’s why.

Gabe Howard: Rachel, you form of introduced up an fascinating level there, that you simply’re 35 years outdated and also you’re single and that society doesn’t like that. I do know that my 35 12 months outdated single feminine pals who shouldn’t have schizophrenia simply get every kind of stress to only relationship up proper now, as a result of in any case, the organic clock is ticking. You’re not getting any youthful. Do you get roughly stress due to the schizophrenia compared to your non schizophrenic 35 12 months outdated contemporaries?

Rachel Star Withers: I get loads much less, and that’s been one thing that’s form of come up and I don’t actually let individuals know that it hurts me, however it does. It is going to form of come up like subtlely.

Rachel Star Withers: It may be irritating as a result of I really feel that the schizophrenia label is simply so like placed on sure individuals and that even individuals closest to you, your loved ones, have these biases in opposition to you. They usually don’t imply to. They completely don’t imply to. However it’s what it’s.

Gabe Howard: However an unintentional bias remains to be a bias. Do you assume that folks could be stunned in case you bought married?

Rachel Star Withers: I completely assume they might be stunned if I met somebody and I used to be in a relationship after which bought married. I feel it will have some dangerous sides, too, as a result of, oh, properly, thank goodness somebody saved her.

Gabe Howard: Actually, although you’ve been dwelling for 35 years all by your self, in case you bought married tomorrow, the total credit score would go to the partner?

Rachel Star Withers: I actually assume so, and, oh, thank God we have been so fearful about her and OK, now we don’t need to, , fear she’s taken care of. Like, I actually do assume that there could be a foul aspect to that of simply seeing me. Like, yeah. As if that different particular person is my caretaker versus a partner.

Gabe Howard: Relating to schizophrenia, caregivers are crucial. The issue, I feel, is I don’t know that we’ve like a great definition of caregiver. In lots of instances, the time period caregiver is just given to the particular person standing subsequent to the particular person with schizophrenia. I would really like a extra strong definition. A caregiver is someone who is definitely giving care every day, and the person who they’re giving care to can’t stay with out that care. That’s what I take into account a caregiver. For instance, after I had surgical procedure, my spouse was my caregiver for a few days as a result of I couldn’t rise up with out her. That looks as if caregiving to me. However two years after surgical procedure, when individuals are like, oh, properly, that’s Gabe and his caregiver. What? What care is she giving? Nicely, , since you stay with psychological sickness. OK, so that you’re actually simply calling her my caregiver as a result of she’s standing subsequent to me. Good marriages are primarily based on being equal. And for essentially the most half, individuals don’t take into account individuals dwelling with schizophrenia equal to their caregivers.

Rachel Star Withers: And that’s an important level, particularly for anyone who’s seeking to get married within the close to future, is to consider that and even arrange some form of like boundaries as a result of one associate goes to get actually burned out shortly in the event that they really feel that they’re that caregiver, in the event that they really feel that they need to take duty over this different particular person, that’s simply an excessive amount of for anyone to deal with. And that’s why help techniques are so essential. It shouldn’t simply be you two in opposition to the world. It doesn’t work in most traditional relationships. And it’s undoubtedly not going to work whenever you’re coping with schizophrenia thrown in there, too. Just remember to keep in touch with your mates, that you simply convey your mother and father round everytime you really feel comfy, if potential, allow them to come to the therapist with you or the physician a minimum of like get to see that aspect of you and perceive. Even for the associate with out the psychological dysfunction, it’s essential that they’ve a help group, too. You shouldn’t be their solely sounding board as a result of they’re going to get pissed off, they’re going to get wired. They’re going to want different pals to speak to and be like, hey, he did this. And I don’t know if that is schizophrenia or that’s simply what being married to a person is like. So either side want a help system they usually want to have the ability to discuss brazenly with out judgment. If there comes a time when one in all them wants extra care than others, it is best to already form of know what you’re going to do, form of have that plan in place. So, hey, I’m going to be ensuring that you simply take your meds on daily basis whenever you get sicker. I’m going to assist with this. All proper, cool. After which when you’ve gotten your throat surgical procedure subsequent month, I’m going to purchase you a lot ice cream.

Gabe Howard: Rachel, individuals ask me about my marriage on a regular basis they usually wish to know the variations between my marriage and common marriage, and that’s the very first thing that I wish to say. There isn’t a distinction. I do have a daily marriage. In a daily marriage, there shall be challenges. It’s for higher, for worse, in illness and in well being. That applies to all marriages. I simply occur to have this illness that I need assistance managing. And a few of that assist may be very, very tiny. Most days, the one assist that I want is my spouse jogs my memory to make a physician’s appointment, not as a result of I’m not managing my psychological well being, however as a result of the minutia of life will get in the way in which and he or she’s like, oh, shoot, you want a bodily this week. Don’t neglect to work in your blood work and decide up the dry cleansing as a result of your blood work is subsequent to the dry cleaner. That’s simply what life is like. I’m stunned on the variety of individuals which might be like, properly, no, no, no, no. Your marriage should be fully and completely totally different due to this one factor. It’s not. We will’t work out what to have for dinner both. We’re largely not particular. I feel that may be a key part.

Rachel Star Withers: And we’ll be proper again after a message from our sponsor.

Sponsor: It might generally really feel like one other schizophrenia episode is simply across the nook. In actual fact, a examine discovered that sufferers had a mean of 9 episodes in lower than six years. Nonetheless, there’s a remedy plan choice that may assist delay one other episode: a as soon as month-to-month injection for adults with schizophrenia. If delaying one other episode sounds prefer it may make a distinction for you or your beloved, be taught extra about treating schizophrenia with as soon as month-to-month injections at That’s

Rachel Star Withers: And we’re again speaking about love, courting and marriage whereas having schizophrenia.

Gabe Howard: Rachel, we’ve a terrific visitor interview, and also you have been very impressed with their on-line presence, their e-book. Truthfully, it’s one in all my favorites, however I is perhaps a sucker for love tales.

Rachel Star Withers: Sure, Andrew and Stephanie Downing, who wrote Marriage and Schizophrenia: Eyes on the Prize, and they’re a married couple. He has schizophrenia. Everytime you’re in search of books about schizophrenia, not lots of them are actually upbeat. And then you definitely assume, oh, wow, marriage and schizophrenia. I’m considering that may additionally work as a horror title. You understand, this might go numerous alternative ways. And I used to be studying totally different elements of their e-book and I simply actually beloved their perspective to tackle life. And I used to be stunned by the interview, Gabe. I don’t know what I used to be anticipating, I used to be simply so taken that they have been like an open e-book with us.

Gabe Howard: I believed they have been tremendous cool, let’s pay attention proper now.

Rachel Star Withers: Right this moment we’ve Andrew and Stephanie Downing, the authors of Marriage and Schizophrenia: Eyes on the Prize. Andrew, to begin with, I’m excited to speak to you, a fellow particular person with schizophrenia. What’s up?

Andrew Downing: Hey, I’m doing good, how are you?

Rachel Star Withers: Superb, and particularly to speak to the each of you. Earlier within the podcast, I mentioned so I’m single, just about eternally, so I don’t have a lot to place in in the case of having a significant psychological dysfunction and long run relationships. So I’m excited to speak to each of you, impressed to speak to the each of you. I wish to soar proper in. What has been the most important impediment?

Andrew Downing: We’ve been via a lot, we’ve been collectively for 18 years and we’ve gone via so many various intervals, and in case you have a look at the primary interval of our relationship, there was totally different challenges and obstacles at the moment. And now quick ahead to 18 years later. Now there’s new obstacles. And so schizophrenia has simply actually introduced us on a very lengthy, totally different journey with so many various angles and all of the questions you may ask us are going to be totally different at totally different occasions in our life.

Stephanie Downing: As I replicate again, the most important impediment was when Andrew was in the course of a psychotic episode, that means when he didn’t have a great sense of actuality and he was having hallucinations, he was delusional. We have been engaged on the time and he ended up within the psych ward. The night time earlier than he ended up within the psych ward, he gave my engagement ring again and it felt just like the Andrew that I fell in love with, the Andrew that I knew died on me. It really felt like a loss of life. And the particular person I knew and fell in love with was gone. And I’d say that that was the most important impediment displaying up on the psych ward and visiting him there and realizing that this person who I like may be very, very sick. And I used to be younger. And so we’ve been collectively now for 18 years. That was essentially the most tough time. And that was 16 years in the past.

Rachel Star Withers: In order that was form of the most important impediment proper there originally, so you bought the toughest half over. That’s superb. However what have been a few of just like the fixed stressors all through your marriage?

Stephanie Downing: The large stressors, I’d say, is simply instability. Additionally, an enormous stressor for us has been well being care. Remedy is a stressor, discovering the steadiness between working via challenges after which additionally simply accepting challenges.

Andrew Downing: Yeah, and after I was first identified with schizophrenia, I used to be taking a load of medicine and now you quick ahead to this a part of my life and I’m on loads much less medicine. That has made life loads simpler for me basically. The medicine and the negative effects have been so intense and coping with that from the age of 19 and now I’m 38 has introduced so many challenges. Like Steph talked about, the well being care as properly, simply the stress of not understanding that I can afford my medicines or discovering the best well being care plan so I can proceed to take my medicines. All these hoops that we’ve needed to soar via round schizophrenia with medicine and well being care has undoubtedly been an impediment and a significant stressor.

Rachel Star Withers: Talking of medicine, how do you two cope with adjustments, so, as an example, if the physician desires to alter you to a unique kind of medicine, do you discuss to Stephanie about it? Do you all weigh out the results? As a result of imagine me, I perceive negative effects.

Andrew Downing: Yeah.

Rachel Star Withers: Yeah, I feel how a lot it’s disrupted my life. I can’t think about additionally being a guardian and having a partner with it.

Andrew Downing: It’s an unimaginable problem and that in all probability eight or 9 years in the past, perhaps just a little bit extra, due to the medicines and the negative effects, attempting to maintain as much as Steph and attempting to be a great husband for her and attempting to be a great father. I didn’t know that I may preserve doing it. The negative effects from the medicine have been so intense, they’re nonetheless intense. And simply attempting to maintain as much as individuals that aren’t on these medicines was extremely tough. And there’s been many occasions in my life I believed, I don’t know if I can do that anymore. So I simply really feel lucky to have survived. And fortuitously, Stephanie has been affected person and simply keen to cope with my ups and downs and extra importantly, my downs. You understand, how keen she was to sacrifice to be in my area and permit me to heal.

Stephanie Downing: After I first began courting Andrew, he was on a really low quantity of medicine and he was so full of life and talkative and energetic. And that’s the man I fell in love with and I didn’t actually know any higher. And when he began getting sick to the purpose the place he was beginning to have extra signs, he then needed to enhance once more. And he was so totally different. He was so drained. He was so simply torpid. And he regarded sick to me and that was medicine negative effects. And in order that was very new to me to expertise that. And that went on for years that he was simply so drained and he appeared so sick to me. And I’d query like, is every little thing OK with us? Like, does he simply, is it issues simply not going properly in our marriage? Is he sad? However numerous that was really the negative effects of the meds. And we’ve watched him attempt to alter and tolerate. However it’s had so many results that it’s actually loads to speak about, simply even eager about how he’s needed to change his way of life. And if we wish to go on a visit ensuring he has his medicine and fortunately he will be the night time driver as a result of if he doesn’t take his nightly meds, he can keep up all hours of the night time. However then he’s form of punished within the subsequent day. All of us form of really feel just a little punished when he’s so drained all through the entire total day. So I feel lots of people assume that folks go off their meds as a result of they’re feeling higher they usually don’t want them anymore. However I feel one other a part of it’s that folks really really feel sick and drained on their medicine.

Andrew Downing: I used to be not very trustworthy with my medicines straight away. I didn’t actually wish to even discuss to medical doctors about my medicines. I simply wished to keep away from medical doctors. And I used to be very closed off so far as discussing medicine with individuals basically. I used to be extra comfy with Steph and we did and proceed to speak nearly every little thing. And she or he’s been so nice for that. We simply have gotten the sample of speaking and speaking as a lot as potential. And I’ve betrayed that confidence many occasions with the medicines and never instructed her that I used to be going to not take the medicines anymore. However she’s undoubtedly been a strategy of are you on sufficient meds? Do you want extra? Do you should discuss to a physician about this? However basically, I’d say that Steph has acted as my therapist and my med supplier and simply someone who I ought to like, every little thing ought to be ought to undergo her. And that position that she performed, that instrumental position, that being a therapist, being a med supplier in a wedding was numerous stress for her. And I imagine that bought actually irritating after some time. And so ultimately I wanted to discover a manner to do that extra alone the place it was much less of a burden for her so she may have extra of a daily life. And we’ve transitioned into that now the place, , I don’t discuss to her in regards to the meds as a lot. And I’m actually constant and locked in with what I wish to do. We’ve communicated about every little thing and normally been on the identical web page with what medicines to take and what to do subsequent.

Rachel Star Withers: You’re not simply married, you even have youngsters. Your youngsters are fairly younger. How have you ever handled just about your schizophrenia being a part of the household relationship? Do they know? Has it prompted any points?

Stephanie Downing: It has been fairly regular total, and each Andrew and I work within the psychological well being discipline, so I feel that helps loads. And our daughter is 14 now and our son is 7. And so it’s simply form of the place they’re at developmentally to know easy methods to speak about it with them. Our daughter simply learn our e-book final summer time, I imagine we mentioned it looks as if a PG-13 e-book. And she or he had questions, however she’s very mature and really, , contemplating genetics and issues which might be handed down, I imply, I can already see nervousness and melancholy form of forming and, , the issues about her future psychological well being. However as a result of Andrew and I are so open and trustworthy and we work within the discipline, I feel that dialog and that encouraging communication and luxury speaking about what’s occurring has been actually useful. We attempt to take issues severely at occasions after which at different occasions we’ve to take issues calmly and joke about issues and use humor and simply attempt to preserve it balanced that manner a bit.

Andrew Downing: Yeah, and we’ve a 7 12 months outdated boy and we’re driving down the street, and there was one thing on the radio about psychological well being and my son James within the again, he goes, hey, dad, you’ve gotten psychological well being, proper? And I used to be like, yeah, yeah, I bought psychological well being. My daughter’s within the automotive, too. And we simply began laughing. So Ella being 14, she will get it and he or she says the phrase schizophrenia, whereas James is extra like, oh, dad has psychological well being or I feel he says schizophrenia from time to time. However it’s a complete totally different expertise. I’ve tried to make use of psychological well being and my journey as inspiration for them too and never been afraid to inform them, yeah, I’m mentally ailing as a result of dwelling a lie or pretending that I don’t have it’s actually, actually dangerous for me. I’ve to be up entrance if I wish to really feel near individuals. They normally must know that I’ve schizophrenia and I’ve this concern as a result of it’s such a significant a part of my life. And so my children are not any totally different. You understand, I really feel like they should know what’s occurring in my life.

Rachel Star Withers: When it got here to having youngsters, have been you fearful in any respect about them having schizophrenia or how that how Andrew’s schizophrenia would possibly have an effect on that?

Stephanie Downing: I’d say sure, due to the reactions of others for one. I feel it’s in all probability individuals’s primary query that they ask us once we’re sharing or speaking in regards to the children and having that worry. And I feel that it’s there, it’s behind my head however, like Andrew tries to remind me and I attempt to remind him, is that with schizophrenia or with psychological sickness, there’s additionally so many strengths in an individual that we attempt to simply actually concentrate on these and attempt to construct these up and construct these expertise. As a result of whether or not our kids find yourself with schizophrenia, which does run in Andrew’s aspect of the household, even past Andrew, or in the event that they find yourself with nervousness or melancholy or something, it’s simply to have these expertise to have the ability to handle it. After which even past that, the hope of a restoration.

Andrew Downing: Straight away, originally of our relationship, we had sure medical professionals, lecturers and totally different individuals in locations of energy or affect who have been undoubtedly fearful about Stephanie having a relationship and having youngsters and we have been instructed don’t have youngsters. And I feel that perspective has modified just a little bit. And I’d prefer to say that I’m extra on that revolutionary aspect or that basically tremendous hopeful aspect that claims, why do we’ve to be so afraid of schizophrenia? As a result of I get pleasure from my life. I’m a contented human being. I like my day by day life. And generally I really feel extra wholesome or completely happy than those that don’t have schizophrenia. So different individuals in my life I see are battling alcoholism they usually’re battling drug habit or they’re battling this, you title it. What life isn’t going to have a battle? And why do we’ve to assume that schizophrenia is that this simply terrible, horrible factor which you could by no means get pleasure from your life on? A part of my coaching as a peer help specialist was actually rejecting the notion that schizophrenia was this countless, hopeless battle and that you simply couldn’t get higher and that you simply couldn’t be completely happy. So I’ve tried to have that ahead considering and never being afraid. And Stephanie has actually helped me perceive that if we will be there for our youngsters and discuss to them and have this open relationship and be capable to speak about psychological sickness and never be afraid of it. And if we had early intervention, we even have much less to fret about.

Rachel Star Withers: That’s completely superior, Andrew, I like that perspective, clearly, schizophrenia is a really critical psychological dysfunction and whatnot, however I’m all the time like, , it’s not that dangerous. I used to be like in numerous issues could possibly be worse, , in comparison with the world’s issues of like, . Oh, however that’s a very nice perspective. And I like your reply. I’ve so many individuals ask me, ought to individuals who have psychological issues have youngsters? And I’m like, I don’t have any youngsters. So I don’t really feel like I ought to reply that as a result of I’ve by no means even been remotely within the scenario. It hasn’t occurred. So it’s actually fascinating to get to speak to you two who’ve already been there and have such a terrific outlook. What recommendation do you’ve gotten for {couples} who’re eager about getting married and one in all them has a really critical psychological dysfunction like schizophrenia?

Andrew Downing: Steph, you wish to go first on that one? You took the massive danger, you have been the one, you’re like, yep, I’m going to join this. So I simply really feel such as you may need one of the best recommendation straight away on this one.

Stephanie Downing: Okay. Once more, communication is a big a part of a wholesome relationship, and that bought us via loads. That communication piece is big and we would have liked to speak about issues, we would have liked to course of issues. And I wanted to know that he was going to be receptive of what I used to be going to say. And we bought thus far in our relationship once we speak about love. And numerous that was can you set that different particular person’s wants and happiness earlier than your self? And I attempted to do this for him. And I feel he may see that. He noticed me mannequin that via the time and the sacrifices that I made to be with him, to indicate up, to depart my faculty dorm and present up on the hospital and go to him there and simply to be there with him via these actually tough occasions. After which in flip, I may see that he wished to do this for me. And if his sickest moments, I didn’t see that and that harm. However just about nearly all of the time I knew that he wished to place me first and ensure that he was going to have the ability to meet my wants in a relationship. And so I noticed that potential and I knew that we have been going to work via loads collectively. However as a result of he had that need and he wished to make these selections, I can inform that, , hopefully with the time and observe and coaching in each relationship, you wish to train various things. And now it’s attempting to get them to load the dishwasher correctly. However I knew that he was responsive and receptive to what I wished.

Andrew Downing: Yeah, and recommendation I’d give to different {couples} or perhaps somebody that has a critical psychological sickness and is contemplating being in a relationship could be to ensure you really feel ready for an unimaginable journey and climbing a mountain. It’s going to be tough. And in case you’re taking numerous medicines which might be making you tremendous drained and sick, being in a relationship goes to make that harder. And it has been a very massive problem for me to have a spouse and have children. And I felt like originally of the journey and all through totally different intervals of our life, that mountain has felt prefer it’s simply too onerous to climb. And fortunately, I’ve been capable of preserve going. However I feel you should ask your self what sort of depth or what sort of ache can you set up with? What are you able to cope with? And everyone’s going to be totally different. So everyone has a singular set of challenges and has totally different stressors. And so my recommendation won’t be one of the best for someone else in a relationship scenario. I’ve a background in hockey. And I performed hockey via two torn rotator cuffs and three traumatic mind accidents. And so being in a wedding and having children, I used to be used to coaching my physique and used to taking a punishment. And so, I simply wish to make it clear that it’s a massive journey and it’s not one thing to be taken calmly since you’re becoming a member of two lives collectively and presumably extra with children. And it’s not one thing to only rush into. And I really feel so fortunate that I discovered Steph as a result of I really feel that the majority different individuals I knew couldn’t have put up with me. I used to be so fortunate to seek out her as a result of she was keen to cope with some actually intense, bizarre stuff.

Stephanie Downing: It simply retains ringing in my thoughts to take your vows severely in illness or in loss of life. I imply, I did take these severely and as I went, I feel I used to be 21 once we bought married, fairly younger. And after I mentioned these vows in illness and loss of life, like, I knew that that should imply someone goes to get sick, someone goes to battle. And the way am I going to reply to that?

Rachel Star Withers: I’ve a query for you, Stephanie, when Andrew could also be beginning to have a tough time, whether or not it’s an episode or perhaps negative effects kicking in from medicine, how have you learnt that’s coming and the way do you cope with it? How do you convey that as much as him?

Stephanie Downing: So that’s tough to reply, however one factor that I do search for is irritability and anger and frustration. There’s the best time or higher occasions to speak to someone about issues. My youngsters know to not discuss to me after I’m drained or hungry. They’re simply not going to get a great reply from me in the best tone and stuff. So in search of that with Andrew has been useful. If he’s seeming actually agitated that I’m going to again off. However then it actually, really is essential to confront at occasions. And so long as they know that you’re someone that’s going to be constant of their life, that you simply wish to be the person who is accountable for conserving them accountable. I feel if they will have that sense and use knowledge or discernment and it’s a great time to speak about it, then you definitely’re simply going to convey it up and also you’re going to allow them to know the way you’re feeling or I’m feeling and simply letting them remember. And this appears actually off proper now. And so not being afraid to have these conversations, but additionally contemplating the best timing of it.

Andrew Downing: I’d simply add too that Steph has carried out a great job of difficult me on issues that she was sure that I used to be being delusional or that I wanted to alter programs in my life or wanted to acknowledge that I used to be feeling mentally ailing. And she or he hasn’t bought it good each time. However she has taken these probabilities and been keen to say, Andrew, you’re not doing properly proper now. I feel you should acknowledge that these ideas that you simply’re having are they’re delusional or that they’re fallacious. And that you should make an adjustment in your life. And there’s been different occasions in my life the place she’s backed off at simply the best time and simply given me area to really feel. And so that’s such a tough factor to know. Which one does he want? Does he want this challenged? Does he want this confrontation or does he want area? And that’s that may be very tough.

Stephanie Downing: However I’ll say once we work via the chaos and the problem, that there’s normally numerous development and therapeutic after that and loads that we each be taught from the expertise. So it does show price it.

Rachel Star Withers: Clearly, all marriages have battle. Does any regular marital points ever get blamed on the schizophrenia?

Andrew Downing: That’s a great query. I feel at occasions, perhaps from time to time it does, I feel, regular issues get turned into schizophrenia issues. However Steph has been superb for one, simply not accepting the label. She doesn’t see me as someone with schizophrenia and due to this fact she doesn’t have this set expectation from that. And I feel that may be a actually damaging factor. So in case you see someone as a label or someone with schizophrenia, then you definitely’re going to have that drawback extra usually with common issues are getting attributed to schizophrenia. And she or he has been so nice of not seeing me as someone with schizophrenia, however extra simply as an individual, simply seeing me as Andrew and that has actually helped.

Rachel Star Withers: Listening to you each converse, you simply hear a fully fantastic, very completely happy, supportive couple, the schizophrenia takes a again seat, which is superior. So I really wish to finish the interview with Stephanie, in case you may inform us about Andrew after which Andrew about her.

Stephanie Downing: Okay, so Andrew was on my crush listing in ninth grade, and he was simply this superb person who was very expert at hockey after which he was this proficient or is that this proficient musician that may play proper now each instrument. And never solely that, however he paints, too. And after I first began hanging round with Andrew, which was like in faculty once we first began courting, taking a look at his work and the depth and the creativity of his mind and the way in which it really works is so fascinating to me. And we simply form of went on a journey collectively. I simply knew that he had these qualities and these values that I beloved and he was so delicate and simple to speak to. I fell in love. And he’s been a fully fantastic husband. We do have our tough occasions, as everyone does. I simply am so grateful to be with him and I’m happy with him.

Andrew Downing: Stephanie has been on my radar since ninth grade as properly. That’s an extended historical past. And, , I’ve really a reasonably onerous time speaking in regards to the topic with out simply beginning to cry like a child as a result of she actually saved my life. You understand, she got here to me after I was at absolute all-time low and was principally the one particular person keen to get in my area, not simply be from a distance or say one factor right here and there and simply be actually distant. She was not afraid of schizophrenia, was not afraid of psychological sickness, was not afraid of something. She got here into my life and stayed there. And I used to be so fortunate to fall in love together with her. She was keen to go someplace actually uncomfortable and be keen to be in someone’s area that was form of scary. And I used to be scary after I was 19. I used to be a form of an individual you didn’t wish to be round since you have been afraid of what was occurring. And due to my success in hockey, my title was identified throughout the nation. And but at the moment, 19 years outdated, no person wished to be round me aside from Stephanie. She noticed me strolling on the hill and he or she referred to as me up and has modified my life. And I really feel so lucky to be together with her and to observe her develop via all of this and to be such an impactful human being within the psychological well being service world. She’s getting her graduate diploma now, and I’m simply so happy with her. She’s such an asset for this neighborhood, for teenagers locally, for adults. She has served individuals all of the years of my life. I’m so happy with her.

Rachel Star Withers: That’s superior. Is there anything that you simply two wish to share with our listeners right here on Inside Schizophrenia?

Stephanie Downing: I’d say simply having hope is such an enormous deal and to know that we strongly help the psychological well being discipline and imagine that having wraparound providers is so essential, however then additionally simply understanding that if it’s your neighbor, if it’s a good friend and also you’re simply there to help via having these conversations and being keen to go in these uncomfortable subjects is basically essential. However having hope and the worth of loving someone in a manner that generally you do need to have some sacrifice.

Andrew Downing: Our tradition, we’ve moved in the direction of isolation a lot, and I do know that a part of that’s to do with COVID proper now, however I’d simply encourage others to get entangled in different individuals’s lives and never from a distance and never from a protected place, however actually stand up shut and private and spend time with individuals and attain out and attempt to make a distinction. Not simply from a snug area at house, however to get on the market locally and attempt to attain individuals which might be struggling. Attempt to assist others keep away from isolation.

Rachel Star Withers: Superior, so I do know I’ve the e-book right here, Marriage and Schizophrenia. Is there anything you wish to promote?

Andrew Downing: We do have our e-book out there, Marriage and Schizophrenia: Eyes on the Prize, it’s on Amazon and most different locations for the paperback copy, however you may get the e-book for a greenback proper now. Additionally, my music is accessible on the market. My debut solo jazz album, Preventing Time. So Andrew Downing, Preventing Time is accessible on all of the streaming platforms. Test it out. I feel you’ll get pleasure from it.

Stephanie Downing: It’s superior for certain, he performs all devices, and writes the music.

Andrew Downing: So to make clear, I don’t play all devices, however sure, I do play piano, bass, drums and guitar on that album.

Rachel Star Withers: How can our listeners discover you? Are you all on any social media?

Andrew Downing: Andrew Downing music is on YouTube. I’m additionally on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, Andrew Downing music, the social media platforms that we’ve are extra geared in the direction of the music. However I additionally put stuff on there for our e-book as properly.

Rachel Star Withers: Thanks a lot for spending this time speaking to us. It’s good and dangerous, however you’re a rarity. It was extremely onerous for me doing analysis for this episode. Getting to satisfy you each and listen to you discuss and the way simply completely uplifting you might be. And simply truthfully, #relationship objectives. Prefer it’s actually, actually superior. Positively I do know giving our listeners and me additionally numerous hope.

Andrew Downing: Superior. That’s actually nice.

Stephanie Downing: Thanks. Thanks for having us.

Andrew Downing: Yeah, thanks a lot.

Gabe Howard: And we’re again. Rachel, what are your ideas?

Rachel Star Withers: I used to be taken away, , the entire time they have been speaking, I beloved it, it was very candy. I feel you possibly can hear of their voices after they’re speaking forwards and backwards and generally you hear his voice start to crack just a little and also you form of hear it in hers that you may simply see that they’ve each been via loads they usually each love one another a complete lot. I don’t know. I used to be so impressed by them. If I’m going to get married, that’s what I need. I need that form of partnership.

Gabe Howard: It was good, it was hopeful.

Rachel Star Withers: And I completely love the way in which that they’d already introduced it as much as their youngsters, the younger son saying you’ve gotten psychological well being. Like these children, , are capable of ask questions. They’re capable of be educated and never be afraid of stereotypes.

Gabe Howard: The schizophrenia was simply one thing that as a pair they needed to cope with. Like managing the family or taking good care of the youngsters or taking good care of the canine or planning a trip, handle schizophrenia was simply one thing on the listing. It wasn’t the point of interest, however it was essential and one thing that they as a pair needed to handle. And I believed that was superb as a result of so usually psychological sickness permeates an excessive amount of and that’s all they concentrate on or one particular person tries to deal with alone and never make the most of the useful resource of their partner or help system. And that by no means seems properly both. I appreciated their administration model. They didn’t ignore schizophrenia, however additionally they didn’t make it the point of interest of their marriage. They made one another the point of interest of their marriage.

Rachel Star Withers: And this feels like a mushy factor to say, Gabe, particularly me, I’m fairly cool, however they gave me hope. They actually did. You understand, simply how uplifting they have been and the truth that they each form of have been like, hey, that is life. Relationships are usually not straightforward for anybody. Not too long ago, a psychiatrist, who I solely went to as soon as, requested me why I used to be single, and he or she stored urgent me for solutions. And I used to be getting actually aggravated about this as a result of I used to be there as a result of I’ve extreme melancholy additionally, and I wanted a drugs change. I perceive why she was asking. She was asking just about how was I responding with sexual negative effects of what I used to be presently on. And I’m like, no, I want medication so I gained’t harm myself to not go on the courting sport. And numerous occasions I really feel individuals with schizophrenia are like me. We’ve got a lot to cope with, hallucinations, delusions, depressions. Simply getting away from bed, having a shower some days is monumental. So looking for a relationship, an individual up to now, is the least essential factor on my listing. However listening to Andrew and Stephanie, it actually helped me see {that a} relationship wasn’t out of the image for me. It didn’t need to be, , the very last thing on my listing, it was extra of a risk. Thanks a lot for listening, like, share, subscribe with your whole family and friends, and we’ll see you subsequent time right here on Inside Schizophrenia.

Announcer: Inside Schizophrenia is offered by, America’s largest and longest working unbiased psychological well being web site. Your host, Rachel Star Withers, will be discovered on-line at Co-host Gabe Howard will be discovered on-line at For questions, or to supply suggestions, please e-mail The official web site for Inside Schizophrenia is Thanks for listening, and please, share extensively.

The submit Inside Schizophrenia: Love, Courting, and Marriage with Schizophrenia first appeared on World of Psychology.