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Podcast: Inpatient Psychiatric Stays From a Physician’s Perspective

Podcast: Inpatient Psychiatric Stays From a Doctor’s Perspective

We’ve all heard scary inpatient tales from the psychiatric hospital. Maybe you have got a private expertise that you just’d moderately overlook. In at this time’s podcast, Gabe asks a psychologist with 25 years of hospital expertise the powerful questions surrounding psych wards: Why accomplish that many psychiatric inpatients appear to have such disagreeable — and even traumatizing — experiences whereas there? Are these tales the norm or the exception? For individuals who have had unhealthy experiences, how can we alter issues?

 Tune in to listen to the distinctive perspective of Dr. David Susman, a licensed medical psychologist who affords a deeper, behind-the-scenes perspective.


Visitor data for ‘Dr. Susman- Advocacy’ Podcast Episode

David Susman, Ph.D. is a licensed medical psychologist. He’s an Assistant Professor in Psychology on the College of Kentucky (UK), the place he serves as Director of the Harris Psychological Companies Heart and the UK Psychology Internship Consortium.  He labored for over 24 years at a public psychiatric hospital and was the founding director of the hospital’s award-winning Restoration Mall rehabilitation program, which offers companies to adults with critical psychological sickness and substance use issues. He has been lively in psychological well being advocacy initiatives on the state and Federal ranges. He’s an lively member and supporter of NAMI (Nationwide Alliance on Psychological Sickness), and serves as school advisor for the NAMI Campus chapter at UK. He’s a member of the management group for the American Psychological Affiliation’s Council of Representatives. Try his psychological well being and advocacy weblog at, or join with him on Twitter, Fb, Instagram or LinkedIn. 

About The Psych Central Podcast Host

Gabe Howard is an award-winning author and speaker who lives with bipolar dysfunction. He’s the creator of the favored e book, Psychological Sickness is an Asshole and different Observations, accessible from Amazon; signed copies are additionally accessible immediately from the creator. To study extra about Gabe, please go to his web site,

Laptop Generated Transcript for ‘Dr. Susman- Advocacy’ Episode

Editor’s Observe: Please be aware that this transcript has been laptop generated and subsequently could comprise inaccuracies and grammar errors. Thanks.

Announcer: You’re listening to the Psych Central Podcast, the place visitor consultants within the subject of psychology and psychological well being share thought-provoking data utilizing plain, on a regular basis language. Right here’s your host, Gabe Howard.

Gabe Howard: Welcome to this week’s episode of the Psych Central Podcast, calling into the present at this time, now we have David Susman, PhD. David is a licensed medical psychologist. He’s additionally an assistant professor in psychology on the College of Kentucky, the place he serves as director of the Harris Psychological Companies Heart and the UK Psychology Internship Consortium. David, welcome to the present.

David Susman, PhD: Effectively, thanks, Gabe. It’s nice to be right here with you.

Gabe Howard: David, I’m actually excited to have you ever right here. Clearly, your credentials are distinctive, you’ve accomplished loads of actually, actually good work. However the major motive that I wished to have you ever on the present is since you labored for over 25 years at a public psychiatric hospital. And there’s simply loads of debate on the market about public psychiatric hospitals and the position of psychiatry and psychology in these institutions. , now we have the entire. They need to be shut down after which now we have the entire they need to open up extra. And also you’ve had a entrance row seat on the medical facet. And loads of the knowledge that’s out there’s a entrance row seat on the affected person facet. And that made me wish to give you a chance to debate all of this, as a result of loads of docs aren’t talking up. They’re type of staying out of the fray.

David Susman, PhD: Yeah, I feel that’s an correct description.

Gabe Howard: Clearly, the rationale they’re staying out of the fray is as a result of they’re at work. There’s in all probability nothing that they will add. And I feel simply to type of be truthful, the rationale that sufferers are leaping into the fray is as a result of they really feel that they’ve been wronged. Their expertise has traumatized them indirectly. Now, we’ve talked on the present earlier than that simply because one thing is traumatic doesn’t essentially imply that it’s unhealthy. However out of your standpoint, as a medical practitioner, why do you assume the sufferers really feel that that is such a foul factor that occurred to them?

David Susman, PhD: I feel it’s for a few causes. One is that as I’ve loads of mates who’re firefighters and police and so they at all times say their job includes serving to folks on one of many worst days of their life. And in order that’s additionally the case for most people who we might see who would come into our psychiatric hospital. It was as a result of most of them would are available not willingly. They’d are available as a result of some disaster had arisen and so they had reached that degree the place mates or household felt that they introduced some risk of hurt to themselves or others. And they might undergo some courtroom course of and often they might are available on a 72 hour courtroom order for analysis and so forth. And so, you understand, you have got individuals who don’t wish to be there by and huge. The surroundings, as you understand, could be fairly I don’t wish to say threatening, nevertheless it’s definitely disagreeable as a result of a lot of the models have locked doorways and loads of these items are security precautions. However so persons are taken out of their lives. They’re introduced into this hospital, they’re placed on a locked unit.

David Susman, PhD: They’re topic to loads of questions and analysis and so forth and so forth. Lots of them actually don’t wish to be there within the first place and really feel, in truth, no have to be there. It’s a tough surroundings. And so folks assume because of that, they do really feel just like the expertise, rightly so, may be very disagreeable. And so they really feel prefer it was a really tough factor for them. And, you understand, fairly frankly, no one needs to remain in a psychiatric hospital. I imply, I feel that’s widespread sense. And so the problem for us as well being care professionals is that we’re in a scenario the place persons are not desirous to be there and so they’re not desirous to see us. However now we have to attempt to set up some rapport and a few relationship with them and likewise attempt to get some data from them in order that we will determine type of what’s occurring. After which additionally to start to counsel a plan of care. And so that may be a little bit simpler stated than accomplished, as you may think.

Gabe Howard: I can think about. And within the curiosity of full disclosure, I stay with bipolar dysfunction and I’ve been one of many sufferers within the locked psychiatric ward. And once I was inpatient, I didn’t notice on day one which these doorways had been locked. I don’t know why it could possibly be as a result of I had extreme bipolar dysfunction. I used to be not. I used to be not in my proper thoughts. However once I did notice they had been locked, I instantly jumped to the conclusion that it was as a result of I used to be incarcerated and it was as a result of

David Susman, PhD: Mm hmm.

Gabe Howard: I used to be unhealthy

David Susman, PhD: Mm hmm.

Gabe Howard: And it was as a result of society was discriminating towards me. They had been afraid of me. And I carried this perception for a decade. Now, the simple factor to say is that that’s not true. That’s not why it’s locked. We have now to manage the unit. You had been suicidal. We are able to’t simply allow you to wander round as a result of now we have to just be sure you can’t damage your self or others. And that’s a really, particularly reasonable and affordable factor to say. However the query that I wish to pose to you is how come no one defined that to me? Why did I not perceive that? Why did I carry round for a decade? That the rationale the door was locked is as a result of folks hate psychiatric sufferers. And I do know that’s an enormous query. However out of your perspective, why do you assume that delusion form of persists, that it’s simply this want to lock up folks with psychological sickness?

David Susman, PhD: Effectively, it’s a fantastic query and it opens up simply so many ideas for me. There’s so many alternative methods to reply to that. However one is that I feel it displays simply our society’s view of inpatient psychiatric hospitals and the way that has been formed over many, many, many, a few years, if not many years, by loads of simply stigma related to that which has been perpetuated by stereotypes and the way in which issues are portrayed within the media. You do have these photos that should you’re in one in every of these hospitals, you’re simply locked up and left in some form of barren cell with a bunch of burly guys sporting white jackets. , I imply, you understand, all of us have type of that picture that I can’t communicate to what occurred to you particularly, however I can’t communicate to our you understand, our job after we would get new sufferers in our psychiatric unit is that we might take nice care to sit down down with them and to attempt to clarify to them very fastidiously that is why you might be right here. These are the circumstances that introduced you right here. It is a hospital.

David Susman, PhD: It is a therapy facility. These are well being care professionals. , we might have individuals who possibly assume they had been in jail or some another type of factor. And so we might attempt very arduous to simply form of actually make clear. We’re right here to supply you care and therapy. It is a well being care facility. The explanation the door’s locked is a security concern. It has nothing to do with something. Reflecting on you or your character or something unhealthy you’ve accomplished. And so I feel actually a few of what you’re speaking about comes right down to the accountability of these professionals to essentially clarify what’s occurring and to assist folks really feel as supported as they will on this actually tough scenario. And I’ve heard many tales like yours. I imply, clearly not the primary individual that I’ve heard that type of story the place you felt such as you had been incarcerated or jailed or locked up or that type of factor. And in order that’s sadly, I feel, been all too widespread an expertise. However it’s one in every of these items that we’re definitely working arduous and dealing actively to alter that.

Gabe Howard: One of many issues that I like about my life is that I reached restoration. Clearly, that’s primary. However quantity two, I bought to be an advocate. And as my position because the host of this present and in different podcasts that I do and in public talking, I get to fulfill lots of people. And a few of these folks that I meet are docs, docs such as you. And one time a physician stated to me, are you positive that it wasn’t defined to you? Are you positive that no one sat you down and defined it to you? And that gave me fairly a little bit of pause for a second, as a result of I’m positive that no one defined it to me. However let’s take into consideration that for a second. I used to be delusional. I used to be suicidal. I used to be depressed. And I’m 100% optimistic that going to the hospital saved my life. However I’m additionally positive that I had full management of my schools to recollect these 4 days precisely. Like, that’s a little bit of a stretch, proper? I form of wish to put that on the market when a few of this data will get out. We’re listening to it from people who find themselves in disaster. And I definitely don’t wish to take away from sufferers. However what position do you assume that performs? Such as you stated, you’re serving to folks on the worst day of your life. Is that going to impression how they recount the story of their time there? As a result of it’s scary. You agree that it’s a traumatizing expertise.

David Susman, PhD: My first response to that’s, as you describe your expertise and that somebody would query you. Are you positive that nothing was defined to you? To me, that comes throughout as you might be being discounted or invalidated, really, indirectly. So, you understand, that’s I feel, unlucky that somebody would would actually type of doubt your reminiscence or your account of the occasions. In order that considerations me. I do assume persons are beneath unimaginable stress after they’re in these conditions. And in addition, folks could also be severely depressed. They could be tremendous anxious. They could be having some traumatic flashbacks or nightmares. They could be actively hallucinating or listening to voices, seeing issues, no matter. And so you possibly can definitely have loads of these typically momentary symptomatic points that impression what’s occurring and the way somebody experiences that point that they’re within the therapy setting. So, you understand, everyone’s expertise could also be just a little bit completely different, however I do assume it’s fascinating since you would see folks go from that form of state of psychological chaos. After which over just a few days, most people that we might see would really feel loads higher as a result of they might have time to relaxation and sleep and maybe start receiving counseling or treatment or different actions or no matter. And so we might see unimaginable change over a really brief time frame. And we’d see folks form of coming again to themselves, if you’ll. And in order that’s at all times terrifically gratifying to see that. However I feel what you’re describing a lot of it’s simply impacted by simply that stress and chaos that persons are going via.

Gabe Howard: I feel that you just’re proper. And I feel that we do have to take into consideration that there’s all completely different ranges of psychiatric hospitals, there’s all completely different ranges of psychiatric care. It’s each psychiatric hospital doesn’t have the identical sorts of companies, the identical docs or the identical price range. So I additionally typically assume that the cautionary tales which are on the market aren’t for psychiatric hospitals or psychiatric wards typically. Due to this fact, a selected psychiatric hospital or psychiatric ward. And it simply form of will get placed on to all of them. I do know that there’s loads of unhealthy press and stigma related to psychiatric hospitals. So this subsequent query is a bit loaded. And I’m relying on you, to be trustworthy, David, however

David Susman, PhD: Okay.

Gabe Howard: How a lot of the unhealthy press and stigma is simply true?

David Susman, PhD: A number of it’s true. So, you understand, in my virtually 25 years working in a inpatient psychiatric setting, I felt like I used to be very lucky as a result of our facility was a full psychiatric hospital. The one factor we did was psychological well being care. Our entire workers was comprised of psychological well being professionals and we had a whole lot of workers and we had a pair hundred beds within the facility. And we had been form of the Cadillac of amenities indirectly. So we had been fairly lucky and fairly blessed. However I additionally interacted with numerous different smaller amenities and extra rural amenities and the place you’d have small psychiatric models and possibly a rural common hospital. So I felt like in some methods we had been type of a Cadillac sort facility the place we had loads of sources. However a few of the different smaller models that we might discover in rural hospitals or in smaller common hospitals, they had been very brief staffed. They’d be fortunate typically to even have one full time psychiatrist on workers. They’d have very restricted sorts of therapy companies accessible to sufferers. And so in some methods, we type of felt like we had been the NFL and a few of these had been like, you understand, eighth grade youngsters’ soccer league or one thing. The comparability was simply so hanging. And I do assume that typically within the amenities the place they’ve much less companies and fewer staffing, that’s the place you hear type of extra of extra of the tough tales or the place extra of that stigma type of continued. So I feel that’s in all probability additionally the place a few of the true stigma comes from, as a result of the extent of care was simply completely different in a few of these other forms of models.

Gabe Howard: It is without doubt one of the issues that I attempt to preach to folks. I actually really feel prefer it’s vital to say it once more right here. We are likely to take the worst of one thing and apply it to the whole lot. And the analogy that I at all times like to make use of is should you’ve ever gone on one unhealthy date, then it’s important to assume that each one relationship is unhealthy. There’s no motive to get married. By no means fall in love. And all of us have a single unhealthy date story. Effectively, most of us anyway. However we attempt to enhance it and we get higher. I’d wish to see advocacy do a greater job of separating that out. And right here’s truthfully why. I feel that by tabling all psychiatric hospitals and all psychiatric wards as unhealthy, you give cowl to the unhealthy ones. They don’t have to alter. Is that the way you see it out of your vantage level?

David Susman, PhD: Yeah, I feel that’s true, and I feel, you understand, our psychological well being system, one in every of our greatest challenges nonetheless is that we don’t. Many areas we nonetheless don’t have ample funding. And with out ample funding, you’re restricted in how one can enhance your degree of care. And so you continue to discover loads of these companies and amenities which are actually struggling. And so they simply they’re not getting the infusion of cash that they should actually carry their companies as much as a extra present and extra acceptable degree. And in order that’s nonetheless very important legislative change, that battle we’re nonetheless combating via our policymakers and our state and federal governments and attempting to get extra funding as a result of truthfully, some of these things, it’s going to be very tough to alter except our advocacy continues to say we’d like extra funding for psychological well being companies. And it’s unimaginable. I imply, in my state, we’ve had considerably flat psychological well being funding for occurring 20 years. And so, I imply, it’s simply caught up, Gabe, in so many alternative points that we’re nonetheless a good distance from fixing. I feel you and I are on the identical web page. We’re very keen about persevering with to work towards free companies and elevated funding and elevated entry to care. And that’s finally what’s going to cast off a few of the lower than ample care and a few of the persisting stigma that we nonetheless face. However till a few of these bigger points are actually tackled head on, we’re going to nonetheless battle in a few of these methods.

Gabe Howard: David, one of many issues that fascinates me is that I stay in Ohio. You reside in Kentucky. Our states, they border one another. The sum of money and sources that Ohio has. And what Kentucky has may be very completely different, beginning with Ohio has Medicaid enlargement. So this allowed loads of poor individuals who have psychological sickness, who’re disabled, to have well being care. And since they’ve well being care, they’ve extra entry to psychological well being therapy than the folks in Kentucky who don’t have Medicaid enlargement. And we’re actually, I’m three hours from the border, so folks three hours away have only a vastly completely different panorama to handle their psychological well being. And that is true for each state. That is true for municipalities. For those who stay in Columbus, Ohio, the capital of Ohio, you’re doing higher than should you stay in one of many rural areas of Ohio. You’ve accomplished legislative advocacy for a very long time. David, how will we repair it? How will we? As a result of three hours, David, three hours. And it’s utterly completely different.

David Susman, PhD: Yeah, I feel loads about advocacy as you do in several methods to attempt to be simpler. , I at all times say get knowledgeable and get entangled. Are type of the 2 key issues for efficient advocates. And the primary a part of that may be a actually key factor as a result of we’d like to ensure we’re properly knowledgeable about these points. And I see lots of people within the advocacy area who maybe aren’t as properly knowledgeable as they need to be. However you actually need to delve in and find out about a few of these issues, about funding and about the way in which legal guidelines are made and adjusted and the way in which that completely different sorts of political forces form the funding and the way that impacts folks on such a bigger degree. , when you’re knowledgeable, that’s if you start to take motion and you start to craft your message and you start to develop your platform of points. You start to work together with your legislators to introduce payments and issues that may start to alter issues. And it’s tiring, exhausting work. And as you properly know, it takes typically years, if not many years to result in a few of these modifications. However that’s the opposite factor about good advocates is that they are usually very tenacious and so they don’t hand over. You must simply maintain coming again yr after yr after yr, as a result of loads of these payments that we attempt to get handed, they’ll take years and years and years to essentially get them via.

Gabe Howard: We’ll be proper again after these messages. 

Sponsor Message: Hey people, Gabe right here. I host one other podcast for Psych Central. It’s referred to as Not Loopy. He hosts Not Loopy with me, Jackie Zimmerman, and it’s all about navigating our lives with psychological sickness and psychological well being considerations. Hear now at Psych or in your favourite podcast participant.

Sponsor Message: This episode is sponsored by Safe, handy, and inexpensive on-line counseling. Our counselors are licensed, accredited professionals. Something you share is confidential. Schedule safe video or cellphone classes, plus chat and textual content together with your therapist everytime you really feel it’s wanted. A month of on-line remedy typically prices lower than a single conventional head to head session. Go to and expertise seven days of free remedy to see if on-line counseling is best for you.

Gabe Howard: We’re again discussing the state of psychological well being advocacy with Dr. David Susman. David, we talked about advocacy, we’ve talked about public hospitals. We’ve talked concerning the vast hole between how sufferers see issues and the way the medical institution sees issues. Let’s simply discuss restoration. One of many coolest belongings you did in your 25 years of the general public psychiatric hospital is that you just began a restoration based mostly rehabilitation program. Are you able to inform us about that?

David Susman, PhD: Yeah. So the hospital I labored out is the second oldest psychiatric hospital within the nation. It was established in 1824, so it’s been open virtually 200 years, which is fairly unimaginable. By no means closed its doorways. For about 185 years of that, it was a really antiquated facility. However then they really constructed a model new state-of-the-art substitute hospital about six years in the past, which was very thrilling for us. , right here domestically. However even earlier than we moved into the brand new hospital round 2005, we determined to start out a brand new hospital vast restoration based mostly program. So we did loads of analysis and we spent just a little bit over a yr and we unveiled what we got here to name the restoration mannequin. And that was based mostly totally on type of fashionable restoration based mostly approaches to therapy. And it ended up being type of like our sufferers, our school, if you’ll, as a result of each affected person that might come to our hospital would have an individualized schedule of lessons and teams and actions. And we had a gymnasium and a library and a pc lab and we had pottery and we had artwork remedy and music remedy and every kind of cool ability constructing lessons. And we had peer assist specialists and we had skilled psychological well being professionals and we had this simply super type of synergy. And so we had been capable of put that into place in 2006. And that program continues to be working at this time. It actually in some ways, I feel, type of revolutionized the care that we supplied and introduced us firmly into the 21st century by way of utilizing type of fashionable philosophies of restoration and of rehabilitation. And we weren’t the primary really hospitals to develop such a program, however we had been one of many first. And it’s really unfold to loads of different psychiatric amenities across the nation, which is actually gratifying.

Gabe Howard: I feel that’s unimaginable. And I like the concept of bringing in peer assist specialists and understanding that there’s a number of pathways to restoration. As a result of I feel that basically is what’s wanted, as a result of the way in which that Gabe Howard bought properly and the way in which that Jane Doe bought properly, particularly residing in several states, being completely different ages, being completely different genders, having completely different household helps or simply having a distinct character. And I feel that possibly folks don’t perceive that I’m typically stunned at how typically I get. Effectively, you have got bipolar dysfunction and my son has bipolar dysfunction. So what’s that? I’m like, properly, right here’s the definition of bipolar dysfunction. However past that, we’re two very completely different folks.

David Susman, PhD: Yeah.

Gabe Howard: And so they’re like, no, I don’t assume so. You each have bipolar. On one hand, I wish to get indignant and be like, how may you be so stigmatizing? However alternatively, I feel, wow, that’s the extent of understanding and training that my fellow People have about psychological well being points. I don’t assume they’re attempting to be malicious. I don’t assume they perceive the idea of psychological well being. Which leads me to my subsequent query. I don’t assume that most individuals perceive the idea of restoration. I do know that on the market within the psychological well being area, it means one thing completely different to completely different folks. I’d like to listen to what your ideas are.

David Susman, PhD: Effectively, you hit the nail on the top. I imply, your expertise is completely different than everybody else’s since you’re a singular particular person and also you’re not the identical individual as anybody else. Developing on 30 years, I’ve talked to 1000’s of people that’ve been in all levels of restoration. And I can firmly say that that journey of restoration is completely different for each single individual. And also you’re completely right that most of the common public, they don’t actually respect loads of the fundamental issues about psychological well being, about restoration. And that I feel then speaks to our job to proceed to teach folks. , it’s typically stated folks don’t know what they don’t know. And I feel that’s very true. Once I’m coaching graduate college students in medical psychology, I typically say to them, it’s important to assume that folks don’t know something if you’re working with them and if you’re offering them care and therapy. In order that signifies that loads of fundamental training is required. However we get hung up, as you understand, Gabe on language round psychological well being and language

Gabe Howard: Yep.

David Susman, PhD: About re-cut restoration. And, you understand, are you recovering or are you recovered or are you in restoration? And, you understand, now we have all these debates about this. However I feel the vital factor is that restoration goes to have a distinct which means in all probability for every individual. However there’s some sense, I feel, that restoration includes progress and it includes change and it includes assist. It includes studying. Simply, you understand, it’s the journey. It’s not a vacation spot. I feel, you understand, I’ve many individuals I do know who who possibly have had extreme consuming dysfunction. And so they fairly confidently say they’ve recovered from their consuming dysfunction. And I’m advantageous with that. Whereas you may need another person has persistent schizophrenia and so they may by no means really feel like they’re, quote unquote, recovered. They may really feel prefer it’s nonetheless form of a upkeep course of for them due to their sickness. And I’m advantageous with that, too. So I you understand, I don’t assume any of us have to be the phrase police. I feel we simply want to fulfill folks the place they’re and we have to settle for them for the place they’re and the place they’re occurring their journey. We have to present them assist. And nevertheless they wish to view restoration, we have to assist them discover that potential to simply have a greater life. To me, that’s what it’s all about, high quality of life.

Gabe Howard: I can’t agree extra. David, the very last thing that I wish to discuss is your weblog. You might have a function in your weblog that I like the place you assist folks share their psychological well being journeys. And the collection known as Tales of Hope. I simply assume it’s actually, actually superior to assist folks get their tales on the market. And it’s atypical for a physician to do. I wish to say that as any individual who lives with bipolar dysfunction, we’re continually listening to from web sites, you understand, about restoration or hope or being mighty. And sufferers are continually sharing one another’s tales. However I wish to provide you with kudos. , you’re a physician and also you’re serving to sufferers share tales of hope. And that’s I’m unhappy that it’s uncommon, nevertheless it’s uncommon.

David Susman, PhD: Effectively, to begin with, thanks. Meaning loads to me. And I additionally wish to point out in case folks go there, that you’re one of many individuals who is sort sufficient to undergo the story of hope interview with me and now we have your interview on there as properly. So, you understand, that was implausible. However yeah, I simply determined early on. I’ve been running a blog for about 5 years now. However there are clearly issues I can discuss from my expertise and from being a well being care skilled. However as I discovered many, many, a few years in the past, it’s the voice of the individual in restoration that in all probability issues much more. And so I felt like I simply wished to showcase that. And so I began the tales of hope, which is this straightforward thought to let folks discuss their journey, no matter that was. And I simply present type of a quite simple framework for them to do this. And so they discuss type of what they’ve been via and what their challenges have been and their successes and maybe what kind of assist or therapy they noticed. And it’s been to me not solely informative, nevertheless it’s been very inspirational. I’ve been capable of join with folks in really a number of international locations around the globe. I’m developing near 100 interviews. It’s simply been tremendously enjoyable and pleasant and I’ve discovered a lot from them. And so I’m going to maintain doing it. If anyone needs to do a Tales of Hope interview, ship them my means. I’m glad to do this.

Gabe Howard: And the way can they do this? What’s your Site? E-mail deal with, what’s your whole information?

David Susman, PhD: Yeah, my form of house base is my Site, which is the place my weblog is. And it’s simply and that’s S U S M A N. And from there they will contact me. There’s additionally details about the Tales of Hope and so they can learn all the opposite interviews which are on there. You’ll additionally discover all my psychological well being and advocacy weblog posts. So I’ve different social media pages on Fb and Instagram and Twitter. And if folks wish to join via LinkedIn as properly, you will discover actually the whole lot on my Site.

Gabe Howard: That’s unimaginable, David. Thanks once more for being on the present and for all you do with folks residing with psychological sickness and to assist educate the general public about the whole lot that’s occurring with psychological well being, psychological sickness, psychology. You’re doing a yeoman’s job, sir.

David Susman, PhD: Effectively, thanks a lot, Gabe. , as are you. You’re one of many advocates I vastly admire. I’m very grateful and grateful to you for letting me spend a while with you at this time.

Gabe Howard: Thanks a lot, I actually, actually respect that. And hear up, everyone, wherever you downloaded this podcast, we simply want you to do a few issues. Subscribe to the present. Charge the present. Use your phrases and inform folks why you just like the present and share us on social media. As soon as once more, your phrases matter within the little social media description. Inform folks why they need to hear. In case you are on Fb on a regular basis like us, you possibly can go to and be part of our non-public group. And at last, keep in mind, you may get one week of free, handy, inexpensive, non-public on-line counseling anytime, anyplace just by visiting We are going to see everyone subsequent week.

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